+5 armor: How helpful is it? - Guild Wars Forums

Etaoin Shrdlu · Nov 12, 2011, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Six-year player with a newb question:

How much difference will +5 armor make to a "running" weapon set? This would be on a character that would have 104 armor total already (60 base, 36 in bonuses, 8 from shield).

Thanks in advance!

AndroBubbles · Nov 12, 2011, 02:54 AM // 02:54

If the weapon mod slot isn't taken by something more useful, then armor is always your best choice. For a runner though, you may want to consider an enchanting mod so you don't have to swap. This would really only apply to dervishes and the like, but most running builds have an enchantment of some kind.

Rob Roy The Divine · Nov 12, 2011, 03:15 AM // 03:15

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Damag...ffect_of_armor

as armor gets higher the reductions are less, but you can roughly calculate armor.

So if you're running on a war with q9 tactics shield running charge with stalwart insignias (+10 al in stance (sprint/echarge)) with fort mod on spear, you have ~106 al = about 45% damage reduction

with the +5 al on spear it goes to ~41.6% damage reduction. so you take ~4% less damage with the spear with def mod than with fort mod

hope that helps

although depends on area you're running, you'll want more HP in hex and degen heavy areas :P

_Aphotic_ · Nov 12, 2011, 05:08 AM // 05:08

In some cases, absolutely useless, see:

here and just dealing with the armor cap in general (cannot stack past +25 armor bonus, or [single skill +XXX] > if multiple skills stack greater than 25)

+36?

pinkeyflower · Nov 12, 2011, 06:31 AM // 06:31

PvP or PvE?

http://www.teamquitter.com/viewtopic.php?t=14392

Etaoin Shrdlu · Nov 12, 2011, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Thanks for all of the replies so far.

@_Aphotic_ - The +36 comes from six signets backed against Mantra of Signets (PvE) and Artificer's Insignia, so I'd think it avoids the armor-stacking limitation. The rundown of the armor would be:

Armor (inherent): 60
Insignia: +18 (3x6 for Artificer's Insignia)
Shield: +8 (inherent)
Skill: +18 (3x6 for Mantra of Signets)

Since the armor from the shield is not from a bonus it doesn't count into the +25 cap, right? That means I still have room for up to +7 armor from a weapon mod (although I'd only be using +5). That's why I'm asking whether that 109 armor is significantly more helpful than 104.

Dzjudz · Nov 12, 2011, 02:55 PM // 14:55

+5 armor is an 8.3% decrease in armor-respecting damage.

If you look at the wiki article on armor calculation, you are correct that Mantra of Signets completely bypasses the armor stacking cap. In fact, all armor you listed there (basic armor, insignia, base shield armor and Mantra of Signets) are separate from the armor stacking cap. So yes, you would get the full effect of an "of Defense" mod on a weapon.

Quaker · Nov 12, 2011, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Well, one question is: +5 armor as opposed to what?

You'd probably have some mod, whether it's +armor, +health, %enchant, whatever. The +5 armor is better than no mod. It's about equivalent to +30 health, and whether or not it's better than any other mod would depend upon the build.

Btw, if it's a running build, armor against melee damage may be less important than against elemental - depending upon where you are running, so +7 (vs elemental) may be better.

Edit btw, I'd say it also depends upon where you are running and what your build is, as to whether +5 (or+7) armor is better than +30 health. It may be better to have +30 health if your main health loss is from degen.

Ariena Najea · Nov 12, 2011, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

+5 armor is an 8.3% decrease in armor-respecting damage.

If you look at the wiki article on armor calculation, you are correct that Mantra of Signets completely bypasses the armor stacking cap. In fact, all armor you listed there (basic armor, insignia, base shield armor and Mantra of Signets) are separate from the armor stacking cap. So yes, you would get the full effect of an "of Defense" mod on a weapon.

The armor cap only includes most skill effects and bonus armor "mods" on non-inscription Shields (ie +10 versus Blunt, Demons).

Dzjudz · Nov 12, 2011, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariena Najea

The armor cap only includes most skill effects and bonus armor "mods" on non-inscription Shields (ie +10 versus Blunt, Demons).

I know? Did I say something different?

LifeInfusion · Nov 13, 2011, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Unless you're being instagibbed because of absurdly low HP there's no reason to use HP except as a swap.

HP is like energy. You swap to a higher HP set and you gain that HP. You swap to a lower HP set and you subtract. Therefore you should avoid swapping to lower to higher HP, which means +5 defense on spear is actually better for general use (if you had +30HP on spear and shield and swap to a 40/40 set you lose 60HP).

The caveat here is if you have insane armor such as that from "Save Yourselves!" or "Feigned Neutrality".

104 armor = 0.4665 x damage
109 armor = 0.4278 x damage
so 0.0387 = ~3.9% damage
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Armor_rating

mrseasonalt · Nov 13, 2011, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

I know? Did I say something different?

So you are saying that you tested shields with the same mods insc and uninscr to see if one stacked while the other did not? Because I always prefer shields that are +10 -2ench and you are saying that you would get more damage reduction from an inscribable +10 modded shield

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

All weapon armor bonuses that are not inscriptions are treated as skill armor boosts, and therefore capped at +25 armor if used in conjunction with armor boosting skills.

What this means is that when you use a shield that has an inherent mod that gives you +10 armor vs fire and you stand in a Ward against Elements (+24 armor vs elemental damage), you only get +25 armor vs fire, not +34. If you use a skill that gives you +25 or more armor by itself, then the weapon mod doesn't do anything at all!

Dzjudz · Nov 13, 2011, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrseasonalt

So you are saying that you tested shields with the same mods insc and uninscr to see if one stacked while the other did not? Because I always prefer shields that are +10 -2ench and you are saying that you would get more damage reduction from an inscribable +10 modded shield

Exactly. If you have two shields with +10 vs earth, one of them is inherent ('old-school') and one of them is an inscription ("Like a Rolling Stone"), the inherent armor bonus will factor in to the armor cap, but the inscription will not. Therefore, if you are using Armor of Earth at 8 Earth Magic for example, you will not get any benefit from the inherent mod, while you will get the full effect from the inscription. On the other hand, if you are faced with Cracked Armor, it would actually be beneficial to take the inherent mod!

Read armor calculation for a complete rundown of the mechanics.

Swingline · Nov 14, 2011, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Just thought I would throw this in there. IAU breaks the armor cap as well so it will stack with your +5 armor mod.

Nov 12, 2011, 02:26 AM // 02:26	#1
Etaoin Shrdlu Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Earth Guild: Death Crotch Clan [DCC] Profession: Me/	+5 armor: How helpful is it? Six-year player with a newb question: How much difference will +5 armor make to a "running" weapon set? This would be on a character that would have 104 armor total already (60 base, 36 in bonuses, 8 from shield). Thanks in advance!

Nov 12, 2011, 02:58 PM // 14:58	#8
Quaker Hell's Protector Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canada Guild: Brothers Disgruntled	Well, one question is: +5 armor as opposed to what? You'd probably have some mod, whether it's +armor, +health, %enchant, whatever. The +5 armor is better than no mod. It's about equivalent to +30 health, and whether or not it's better than any other mod would depend upon the build. Btw, if it's a running build, armor against melee damage may be less important than against elemental - depending upon where you are running, so +7 (vs elemental) may be better. Edit btw, I'd say it also depends upon where you are running and what your build is, as to whether +5 (or+7) armor is better than +30 health. It may be better to have +30 health if your main health loss is from degen. Last edited by Quaker; Nov 13, 2011 at 03:19 PM // 15:19..

Nov 13, 2011, 02:04 PM // 14:04	#11
LifeInfusion Grotto Attendant Join Date: May 2005 Location: in the midline Profession: E/Mo	Unless you're being instagibbed because of absurdly low HP there's no reason to use HP except as a swap. HP is like energy. You swap to a higher HP set and you gain that HP. You swap to a lower HP set and you subtract. Therefore you should avoid swapping to lower to higher HP, which means +5 defense on spear is actually better for general use (if you had +30HP on spear and shield and swap to a 40/40 set you lose 60HP). The caveat here is if you have insane armor such as that from "Save Yourselves!" or "Feigned Neutrality". 104 armor = 0.4665 x damage 109 armor = 0.4278 x damage so 0.0387 = ~3.9% damage http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Armor_rating Last edited by LifeInfusion; Nov 13, 2011 at 02:07 PM // 14:07..

Nov 12, 2011, 02:54 AM // 02:54	#2
AndroBubbles Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Dec 2009 Profession: Mo/	If the weapon mod slot isn't taken by something more useful, then armor is always your best choice. For a runner though, you may want to consider an enchanting mod so you don't have to swap. This would really only apply to dervishes and the like, but most running builds have an enchantment of some kind.

Nov 12, 2011, 03:15 AM // 03:15	#3
Rob Roy The Divine Academy Page Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Weegieville Guild: No Goats No Glory [BAAA] Profession: W/	http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Damag...ffect_of_armor as armor gets higher the reductions are less, but you can roughly calculate armor. So if you're running on a war with q9 tactics shield running charge with stalwart insignias (+10 al in stance (sprint/echarge)) with fort mod on spear, you have ~106 al = about 45% damage reduction with the +5 al on spear it goes to ~41.6% damage reduction. so you take ~4% less damage with the spear with def mod than with fort mod hope that helps although depends on area you're running, you'll want more HP in hex and degen heavy areas :P

Nov 12, 2011, 05:08 AM // 05:08	#4
_Aphotic_ Krytan Explorer Join Date: Mar 2010 Guild: Muppets Versus Muppets [MvM] Profession: P/A	In some cases, absolutely useless, see: here and just dealing with the armor cap in general (cannot stack past +25 armor bonus, or [single skill +XXX] > if multiple skills stack greater than 25) +36?

Nov 12, 2011, 06:31 AM // 06:31	#5
pinkeyflower Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jan 2010	PvP or PvE? http://www.teamquitter.com/viewtopic.php?t=14392

Nov 12, 2011, 07:00 AM // 07:00	#6
Etaoin Shrdlu Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Earth Guild: Death Crotch Clan [DCC] Profession: Me/	Thanks for all of the replies so far. @_Aphotic_ - The +36 comes from six signets backed against Mantra of Signets (PvE) and Artificer's Insignia, so I'd think it avoids the armor-stacking limitation. The rundown of the armor would be: Armor (inherent): 60 Insignia: +18 (3x6 for Artificer's Insignia) Shield: +8 (inherent) Skill: +18 (3x6 for Mantra of Signets) Since the armor from the shield is not from a bonus it doesn't count into the +25 cap, right? That means I still have room for up to +7 armor from a weapon mod (although I'd only be using +5). That's why I'm asking whether that 109 armor is significantly more helpful than 104.

Nov 12, 2011, 02:55 PM // 14:55	#7
Dzjudz Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz	+5 armor is an 8.3% decrease in armor-respecting damage. If you look at the wiki article on armor calculation, you are correct that Mantra of Signets completely bypasses the armor stacking cap. In fact, all armor you listed there (basic armor, insignia, base shield armor and Mantra of Signets) are separate from the armor stacking cap. So yes, you would get the full effect of an "of Defense" mod on a weapon.

Nov 14, 2011, 12:46 AM // 00:46	#14
Swingline Forge Runner Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere far away from you Guild: The Mirror of Reason[SNOW] Profession: W/	Just thought I would throw this in there. IAU breaks the armor cap as well so it will stack with your +5 armor mod.